Harnessing Happiness with Sarah J Naylor

Welcome to the Harnessing Happiness Podcast, upbeat vibes generated and transferred to you.

Hello and welcome to another episode of Harnessing Happiness with myself, Sarah J Naylor.

Today, I am delighted to be joined by the fabulous Carol.

Now, let me give you a little bit of background about Carol to start with before we really dig in.

Carol is the managing director of Grow Your Brands International Beauty Brand Consultancy and the beauty CEO Academy and also the author of Glow Up Create Your Own Beauty Brand, a children's book, children's come teenage book.

And that's what I'm really excited about digging into, but we'll get to that shortly because I just want to give you a little bit more background because Carol comes with huge amounts of experience.

She's an international beauty expert, entrepreneur, speaker and mentor with more than 30 years experience within the beauty industry, helping beauty and wellness brands grow.

She's held senior leadership roles within global organizations, including Boops International Retail and The Body Shop.

Let's put it this way, Carol knows her stuff.

I was going to use another word there, but I won't.

Carol knows her stuff.

She's worked across the UK, Europe, North America and Asia.

And today we really want to get into and talk about the inspiration and what made her actually want to write and create this book.

So Carol, without further ado, let's get into it because I'm really excited because when you sent me a copy of the book to look through, I was inspired and opened my eyes up to stuff.

So even though it's aimed at children and teenagers, I think there's a lot there for adults to learn, surely.

Absolutely, Sarah.

And well, first of all, thank you for having me on your amazing podcast.

When I first started to show people the book, before it was launched, I showed it to a couple of the manufacturers I work with.

So I work in a lot in the beauty industry and have a kind of a wide network of all those kind of industries behind the scenes that go into making a finished product.

And a number of them said, actually, our customers need this.

So I thought that gave me some hope.

Yeah, so it's, and shall I tell you a little bit about where the inspiration came from?

No, that's what I'm really fascinated about.

What inspired you to write it?

Because there's a parallel, I guess, to the book.

I mean, I wrote my book and published it back in 2017, shining a light on you how to manifest your dream job.

And it kind of hooks into the prelude to where I've been talking to sort of adults and looking at jobs and things like that.

Because actually, what you're doing through the book is inspiring the next generation to think creatively, to think outside of the box, think about other stuff.

I mean, before we jumped on, you quoted some stats from the government that were really interesting.

I don't know if you want to share those with the audience.

But yeah, it's just, I think it's great, because anything we can do to inspire the next generation is awesome.

Yeah, so I worked with a lot of when I was working for Boots and the Body Shop, very, very big brands with lots of money and, you know, obviously, well known brands globally.

But I also mentor a lot of new founder brands, people who are kind of new to the industry and don't know anything.

And as part of that, I started to do some mentoring and supporting schools.

And that's where the book came from, because I would either do interviewing or career talks.

And where the book actually came from was one particular class in a primary school.

And what I did, I was doing the talk about the whole start to finish about how you create a beauty brand.

And because it was going to be mixed, you know, kids, male, you know, boys and girls, I did I decided three products, I said, we'll create a digital product, we'll create a personal care product, something that's in your bathroom, cabinet and a food product, maybe a cereal or something like that.

So I took them through the whole process.

And I had product samples and empty containers, you know, containers before they've been through the print process.

And I made a little conveyor belt of everything that that they, you know, the whole process that they could see.

And then we, you know, as part of that, I was asking for their ideas.

And these young children came up with the most amazing ideas, and they were had questions about sustainability.

They had different packaging ideas, things that we don't even think of.

And then I noticed when I were doing similar talks to slightly older children, it became much more about the subjects.

And they'd lost.

So I do a very similar talk, maybe tweaked it a little bit more age appropriate.

And they had, it was all about the subjects.

And also, they were nervous about those subjects as in which subjects do I choose, but they'd lost that entrepreneurial spark and these these great ideas.

So it was those early questions that I thought, you know, what I'm going to do is I'm going to, I'm going to put that into a book.

Because one of the things I did at the end of the session is when we went around the class and said, Okay, which part of the all of the process would you like to do?

And then one guy put his hand up and said to one child, I want to be a forklift truck driver.

I said, Great, okay, so forklift truck driver, they're in the warehouse, you need to be able to read signs.

So being able to understand reading is good.

And maybe good coordination, because you're having like, you know, so maybe do some athletic things.

So some of the things that I pulled out were not always academic, somebody else wanted to be the influencer.

So of course, you know, what children are thinking about in school these days, the jobs are very different.

And and probably by the time they leave school, the jobs will be very different again.

Okay, you want to be an influencer, as soon as you're able to have a phone, or if you have a camera, learn how to take good photos, learn how to edit, learn how to be comfortable talking on camera, understand lighting.

And so we went round one guy wanted who is a video game.

In fact, his one of his family worked for one of the big gaming companies.

So you could see where some of the inspiration.

But he wanted to do graphic design on the cover of the video game box.

So again, you know, so they're not always what we would think of, you know, the maths and English and the academic subjects.

So you know, we talked about so maybe that's art.

So and then depending on the age of this, of the child, we might talk about what they might study at GCSE, what they might study at university, if they go, if they go that far.

So that's kind of where it came from.

I had all the I had my kind of years of experience, but I had all of the what questions do people ask?

And what do they want to know?

And so the aim is to give them the whole process, but to make it fun.

And to and then to learn about, you know, so they do they learn about cost of goods, you know, which actually is maths, you know, where you learn about the retail price, the cost.

And, and you know, if I growing growing up knew that learning more about chemistry would enable me to be a cosmetic science, I might have paid a bit more attention in the chemistry car.

Carol, absolutely.

I mean, this is something,

as I say, when I was doing my book, and as I say, but mine was focused further along,

I did actually take some chapters out that I'd always planned, still 10 years on, they're still

asking questions for the 11 to 16, 16 to 18, and then the undergraduate level,

because what you're saying is, is that curiosity, which firstly, that is ironed out of kids,

which is so sad, because they've got all these ideas, and people go, don't be silly, don't be,

you know, you can't do this, you can't do that, because then they become dampened down,

and they don't say things because they're fearful, and the fear builds up, and we need to

encourage that exploratory mind, that curiosity, to find out what fires you up,

what interests you, because that does then influence how you study in schools,

and what subjects you pick, and that helps you then go along the line to the qualifications,

the education that you might need.

You might not end up going and taking that job that you

thought you wanted to do at four years old, however, that inspiration will still be there,

because you're creating something that will be anchored through that activity,

that they will always remember, because obviously the subconscious will recall that,

and that experience that they had, and that curiosity, and that support and encouragement

goes miles and miles and miles and miles.

It's just so impactful, isn't it?

And when I read the book, I just thought, oh, this is brilliant, it's just great.

Yeah, there's a couple of things.

I've designed it as a workbook rather than a reading book, so just pull it up here.

And also, I've designed it so that each two pages are a colour, and that's kind of a section.

So for example, there's a section about designing branding and logo, and so whoever the parent, the teacher, whatever, might just want to pull out, let's just do about logos.

You don't have to sit there and do start to finish.

It's very much about how to work, but you learn about logos, you learn about branding.

A part of what they may not do so much at school is about getting feedback, because when anybody's creating a brand, it's not just your idea, you learn feedback.

So I've encouraged them to get feedback in there.

So that's kind of a business skill that they're learning, and some of them are like, okay, people are giving me different ideas to mine, and you can build on that, although for some children, they might find it interesting that not everybody agrees with their idea.

But it's the whole inspiration though, isn't it?

And yes, you've written it in terms of, you know, with a beauty brand focus, but actually, that understanding, and this is where it sort of hit me as an adult, because like you said, you know, you will pick out, let's say, it is a beauty product off the shelf, but it could be any product, it could be a bag of nails, I don't know, it could be anything.

We have this level of acceptance, we go into a supermarket, we go into a shop, we buy something, we have no real concept of what goes on behind all of that.

And to enlighten the children and the parents that are working with the children with the book, to what actually goes on behind all of that, and where all these different avenues of career opportunities and jobs can be, is absolutely brilliant.

But also, what I love, what you've done with the book as well, is you've brought in the environmental issues.

I know when we had our pre-record chat, one of the things that stood out for me was obviously your passion as well about the environment, and how you enlightened me to the, for instance, the fragrance sector as well, that I was like, oh gosh, I'd not even thought about that.

And it was something I shared with one of my clients yesterday, because you were talking to me about the Sandalwood.

And we just, we spend so much time being conditioned to just accept stuff.

But we've got to, you know, we've all got to be curious, we've all got to ask questions as to what's right and what's wrong.

Yeah, so the young children are really interested in sustainability.

And I think for many of us, people think about packaging.

It's one of the things that our local councils encourage us to do, don't they?

You know, we've just started recycling food in our area, and we've got a separate bin.

But most people get into, okay, separating the waste and understanding that.

And if you're creating a brand, then there's much more of a responsibility to think I'm creating something new.

And so I'm automatically going to be creating waste.

How can I do that in the most responsible way?

But if, but there is waste in lots of ways.

But there's also, you know, there's been this whole trend about natural ingredients.

And but some of those natural ingredients are actually quite scarce.

So I was talking about the Sandalwood tree, which I think takes 125 years to grow and be at the point where it can be harvested.

And yet it's almost at extinction, because Sandalwood has been used so much.

And yet people don't think about those natural resources.

And also the water or the or what's, what's needed and the energy that's needed.

Nearly every, you know, pretty much every ingredient, if it's what whatever it's going to be, although I'm talking beauty brands, it could be anything you use in your bathroom, no haircare, sun care, anything like that, you know, a safe way to be made into something.

And all of that process usually takes water, energy, you know, so there's, there's that side of sustainability, there's the supply chain, you know, people get very confused about packaging and packaging, I think it's one of the most tricky things.

Glass is really good in that it, it, you know, it doesn't react with most things, but then it's very heavy to transport, you know, you know, so and there's much more, there's other materials that are being used out there.

Oh, actually, just while I'm on that, so one of the things the exercises in here is about a recycling symbol.

So I encourage the people going through the book, the children to go and look at take some products in their house and look at the recycling symbols and what types and what they mean.

And when they're thinking about their product, what type of recycling symbols would they like to have?

And and then to start drawing those symbols, so they start to recognize those.

But that will anchor it, won't it?

Yeah, yeah, when you were talking about inspiring, though, one of the things and why I love working with schools is we're all inspired by the people we have around us.

And obviously, social media is a big influence.

But for many children, you know, and I work with inspiring the future, which is an amazing organization.

And if anybody here is listening and wants to volunteer and do more with schools, inspiring the future.org is is an organization to tap into.

You tell them what your expertise is and then they would, I'm sure, snap you up as a volunteer.

They look where you live and then they match you with a school and an activity.

But during Covid, many of those activities went online, you know, like they did for many things.

And we have a special briefing for one school that was in inner city school.

And they said these kids are third generation unemployed.

So can you imagine?

Oh, your parents, the parents hadn't worked, their grandparents hadn't worked, their great grandparents hadn't worked.

So they had and the and the brief was we're going to keep these children out of, you know, out of gangs and show them other opportunities.

So can you imagine that, you know, you haven't got no one in your immediate sphere that will that you can look to to say, I want to do that.

And that's why I love about working with schools, because sometimes you go and then you see the typical, you know, the police, the fire, you know, the, you know, that there are no break from when I was at school for the local industries, which are great, you know, the local accountancy firm, all of those local industries go and support the school and is great.

And there's a lot of creativity behind things like creating a brand that is often missed at these types of events, because you never know, I think it was Oprah that said you never truly know who you influence and who you impact, because you can have a conversation with someone.

And then, you know, then then they can, they can, years later, think, gosh, I did this because of that person who mentioned something all that time ago.

And there was one talk I did with it with a high school.

And the way they did it, actually, it was, you had a stand, all the youngsters by class walked around, chatted to you.

And if there's anything they were particularly interested in, they booked a slot and came back.

And there was one, one person I remember, she came back and she wanted to create a lip gloss brand.

And she knew exactly what she wanted.

So I said, I told her exactly what she needed to do.

I said, You can't you won't be able to do this on your own, because you're a rage, you're going to need an adult for some of these things.

But I gave her some contacts to talk to.

And I hope she's done it because she was so passionate.

And you know, she was, I think 15.

And just because, you know, the age shouldn't be a barrier.

If somebody's got these entrepreneurial skills and ideas, as long as they've got the support.

So that's what the book is about is to give people, they might want to create not create the whole thing, they might just want to do one aspect of it, you know, maybe they want to get into packaging, or maybe they want to get into the testing side of it.

Or, you know, there's lots of different aspects, it supports it, the, the product and the beauty industry supports so many careers, it really does.

But that's what I loved about it is the the inspiration that it delivers.

And that's that impact that you have, like you've just said, and it's a ripple effect, but you cannot underestimate the power of inspiration and support.

And obviously, this is why there's so many influencers out there, because they get on and they and then people listen to what they're saying.

But we've got to always be mindful about what we are influencing and how we are impacting people.

But when you can see that inspiration, and you know, I spent 36 years working in recruitment, and although I work with people at all different stages in their career, there's something really rather magical about helping somebody on that first step.

Yes, on the career ladder.

And there are people that I met years and years and years ago came into the office and you know, and I helped them go in, you know, that this one job move, and I was always very mindful of the role that I played within their lives, you know, and they've gone on to like HR director level roles and senior sort of accountancy and business finance and all sorts of roles and sales directors.

And, and you know, you just know that you've played that part, you know, it's not that I'm taking any credit for it.

But that's what I'm saying is about being mindful, but in the same way with your with your book and the talks and inspiring children because it, they they have got that open mindedness.

But as I said before, too much is done to dampen them down, or you can't do this, you can't do everything is possible.

If you've got the inspiration, and you've got the people supporting you, and that's why it's always mindful to be around people who are like minded, who will support you, but we can start supporting our children.

And I would like to actually say thank you again for the support that you gave my son many, many years ago.

Because obviously, we were talking and you said, well, let me have a chat with him.

And you spent a good amount of time talking to him about what he was doing with his brand.

And so I, I know that Carol walks her time.

How did I'm actually curious, Carol, I mean, I know we've talked about the book and how you're inspiring, but how did how did you end up doing what you're doing?

Because that always fascinates me.

And I always love to know what, you know, people's route to their career has been because I mean, there must be something in there that's inspired you along the way to do what you're doing now.

Yes, yes.

So I worked, I spent most of my career in in Boots.

And, you know, and I actually started off in stores and I had a really good first.

So somebody spotted me.

I knew when I had my interview, and he, that it was the manager, the store manager, he fast tracked my career.

And I'm so grateful to I'm so grateful to him.

And his name is Peter Roach.

And he, yeah, he kind of put me on a development program.

And I was promoted within three months.

And I was looking after a department.

So I got a lot.

And I was my first department, actually, with the health care and the pharmacy area, and then beauty.

So I looked after cosmetics, fragrance, you know, the electrical beauty, you know, all of their cosmetics, sun care, sunglasses, also photography and when photography was quite a big homebrew in those days, if you remember that period of time when that was sold in stores.

But I started to work with, we had teams of beauty advisors, and from quite a young age, I had about 30 people working underneath me.

So I learned a lot of good.

That taught me a lot of leadership skills, boots were amazing.

And I think if you can work with a big company early on in your career, the support and the development skills you get is unbelievable.

And also with a big organization, you've got lots of career opportunities.

So I ended up kind of going into the, into the beauty side of it.

So initially, I was in the number 17, we look at became like an area manager for number seven.

But what we were looking at was store space, bought store layout, merchandising, that took me into learning and development.

And then years and years later, I was in management development.

And I always wanted to work internationally.

And so I joined the international retail team, which boots were setting up overseas around the world.

My first country was Taiwan, was Taiwan.

And that was setting up boots are all recruiting all the local teams training all the local teams.

And then I started to see other product brands and other different, you know, how beauty and how products were valued differently in different parts of the world.

So, you know, when I first went to Asia, they were talking about whitening products.

And I was like, Oh, isn't that interesting?

And I was remember out in the sun at the weekend and going into work on the Monday and the team were like, Oh, my goodness, what have you done to your skin, you disabled yourself.

I was like, What's the beauty and how was perceived very, very differently.

And when I worked in the L'Oreal group, that was something that they had this kind of perceptions of beauty around the world program that people went through to understand how its beauty varies culturally and what people understand.

So working internationally in those various different, you know, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan, Thailand, and the US and Canada with boots.

And then just also as part of that, when we're training beauty advisors, recruiting, setting up in new markets, there was always a big product elements.

And as part of that, when we were introducing, you know, it's just a the media and the PR teams, or even the brand teams and the big retailers, then we would bring over the UK scientists.

And I just got to over there to explain, you know, so there was, you know, if there was a particular technologies around it.

So I just then I met all the scientists, you know, as part of, I was usually, you know, developing the training as well for, you know, so I understood all what the ingredients did and how to sell the products.

So, so we kind of evolved from that, really.

And then I had a global job at the body shop as well, where I was responsible for learning and development.

And if say a new product was being launched in say, three years time, we'd be working at the lab sample stage.

And yet this product, when it launches, it's going to be doing this, these are claims we're going to start making.

But the timeline in those days was very long, these days, the timelines are much shorter.

So I just got more and more involved with working with the lab and seeing behind the scenes of what goes into it all the testing, you know, sometimes me why we'd be planning a launch of a product.

And they said, actually, that product is not going to launch because of there's an issue.

And now I understand, you know, you can plan something, but if it's failed a stability test or something, then the timeline might have to be put back because all the products have to pass all of their safety testing.

So yeah, that's, that's how I got involved in it.

And then when I decided to set up my own business, it was initially to help brands get into retail.

But so many people started to say, if we sell this into a buyer, what would they, what would the buyer say?

And then they said, and actually, can you help me create it?

And the good thing about being part of the, you know, boots and L'Oreal, I've got all I've got a massive directory of all those people behind the scenes, which people see the product on the shelf, but there's so many careers and so many stages that involved.

So that's, that's how I got into it.

So if anybody's thinking of, you know, has some as an idea, then just message me and I'll give you a few pointers on where to start.

Because I think that's the other thing about the children's book is that people, they might want to create something, but it's still quite, it's not that it's secretive, but it's not a public area of the industry.

What people see is the finished product.

They don't necessarily see the various stages behind the scenes and what goes into it.

And once you like anything, once you know that when I created the book, once you know how to create a book, you know how to create a book, but that very first time, you need to tap into experts who've already been and done it.

And it just makes it so much easier and simpler and takes the risk away.

Having spent all that time in recruitment myself, you know, I've always been fascinated about people's careers and you know, the journey, but what I love about it is that it gave you such a wide breadth of knowledge and understanding about all the sectors.

And that's, I have to say what I loved about recruitment, because I would talk to people, go out to businesses, I'd get around and be introduced to manufacturing companies.

It could be lawyers, you name it, any business that I dealt with working on recruiting, commercial support.

So you get to learn and you get to see, which is where then you can start to inspire as you have done.

There are more opportunities.

It's not just what you see in front of you.

And also what I believe, truly believe is that if you've got an idea, stop looking for jobs that are out there, because actually you can create your own opportunity that doesn't need to have a job title.

It's about what it is that you enjoy doing.

It could be, as you say, it could be the creative side.

It could be the influencing side.

It might be that you like doing the driving and the truck driving and moving forward.

It's about tapping into and having a feel and an essence of what it is that you're interested in, but being supported, that that can manifest.

But once you recognise what it is that you are interested in, then you will start to become aware of those opportunities.

And actually when you start to seed it in the children at the beginning, that there are lots of opportunities out there.

It isn't just because you're just generally sort of influenced by maybe what your parents do, what your grandparents have done or what your friends' parents have done.

And I've always said, just ask questions, find out what people do and just ask, always ask open questions because that way you learn, which is what the children do at a certain age.

And then as we were saying right at the beginning of our conversation, that when they get to a little bit more teenage years, they become that little bit more reluctant because that enthusiasm, that sort of innocence has been smashed out.

And we don't want that.

We want people to be interested, don't we?

So that's why I love what you've done and what you're creating and what you've created and what you go into schools to do, which is fantastic.

And I would encourage if anybody does work with young people, go and have a look what's on your local industrial estate.

They may not look the most sophisticated or modern buildings, but inside there's probably, so some warehouses like these days, there are so many, they're DTC, there's so many modern warehouses popping up on the side of motorway, junks and etc.

But if you've got a local industrial estate, what's in there?

You might find there's a packaging company or somebody that makes a manufacturing company or you know, who knows what's there and go and speak to them.

And I bet they would love to host your school, a class and take them on a tour.

And you just never know what that spark will will will produce.

So yeah, because I think the practical side of it, not just sitting in a classroom, listening, going out and doing things.

And so that's part of it, you know, is the next thing that I want to have like a next stage of some practical things, which at the moment, I'm calling it the beauty science lab.

But because I know that it's and it might not end up being beauty, because I think I want to expand it a little bit to be more around products, but we may end up creating a beauty product as part of it is to have some activities that schools can do where they can make physically make something.

So they could go through the book, they could do exercises, they could talk about learn about branding.

But then there's something that the school can order that's a kit that they can actually make.

And it's all that they can actually have something that with a label on that is a finished item.

So that's what I'm working through next is to be able to have to have that a far cry from trying to melt your rule, your plastic ruler over the bent bumps and burner in science.

Is that what you did, is it?

But it is, I mean, kids are interested, aren't they?

And I think that, you know, just, as you've said, going and seeing and doing because we all learn in different ways, we've all got different learning styles.

I'm very much of an activist by learning style and we're very much a pragmatist.

I need to do something for the anchor, then I can, you know, I can draw on that experience, that knowledge.

Don't give me a book, but other people are much better.

They'd much rather read a book and sort of get all the theory behind it.

And then there's, you know, then you've got that time that there are the reflectors as well that may well come into that classroom, may well be quieter because they might be a bit more introverted, but they will be taking the information in and they'll go away and they'll reflect upon it.

But it's all about the different learning styles, but having that experience, but appealing to different people, you know, some people will like the stats.

Yes, so it was on the Google UK site, so it's saying 31% of young people aged 11 to 18 say they're interested in a career in creative industries, yet 49% of them, so almost half, just don't know what skills or qualifications they need to do that.

And there's about 270,000 creative businesses in the UK, which is about 10% of all registered businesses.

So it's not just all about maths and, you know, maths and English.

And the beauty industry is worth around, well, it contributes about 30 billion to the UK economy.

This is from the Times and supports more than 600,000 jobs.

So, you know, when you look at a product and it could be, you know, a shampoo, a conditioner, a bath product, a sun cream product.

It's all the scientists, the chemists, you know, the designers, the photographers, the website developers, you know, the logistics teams, the sustainability experts.

I mean, there are so many jobs that go into that.

You know, so there's just so many careers.

Yeah, and it's changing all the time, you know, sort of AI, where is all that going for the young people?

And what's that going to do?

And my worry, I read something recently about work experience and how that might be impacted by AI, because many of the companies are using AI to do the junior jobs that typically an intern or someone having work experience might have got.

And I hope that organisations still give young people the chance to try and be part of a business and just see what it's really like.

And I also hope that they get given some little tasks to do as well, rather than being asked to just, you know, open the post and collect the, you know, make, load the photocopier, but do some, you know, see if they can find them a little project or something to do that gives them a real insight.

Having spent like 36 years working in the recruitment sector up until 2023,

when I came out of it, I've gone through sort of different periods of seeing how the

working world has changed, you know, from sort of, here in the UK, I mean, we used obviously,

there's a lot of mining, the mining went and that made a lot of redundancies, then we had

the rise of the call centres, the call centres then were offshored and things keep changing.

That is one thing in the world, everything keeps changing and yes, we've got AI and yes, it's impacting.

But is it taking away the jobs that mean that we spend, because we do, so many of us spend far too much time in front of tech and what have you.

But therefore, it is one thing that AI can't do is all the practical stuff, the hands-on stuff, you know, for instance, you know, like you were saying with the beauty products, use that as an example, it, you know, you have got to be able to try things, make things, AI can't just go out and do all of that.

There's got to be the sort of AI can't smell it, you know, you might be chatting to chat GP to go, oh, yes, I do like that fragrance.

I don't think you do because you have no idea.

But you know, there's lots of, we've not talked about that, because there are testers aren't there, people that will work out what fragrances are right, and you know, you've got to know what the environment is.

And it's the other other roles are what I'm saying will evolve.

Yeah, as a result, because a vacuum doesn't exist, it has to be filled, and things will materialize.

But we have got to take control of that and keep that creativity, keep that curiosity, keep that inspiration, keep that support and encouragement of everyone to do different things and think outside the box, think differently, move away from the narrative, let's see what happens and encouragement.

But

one of the things I wanted to ask you because of what you've just said in conjunction with what

you've said previously, which was about how the big organizations are great to get into,

but equally, we're looking at entrepreneurs, would you wherever possible recommend that

anybody that's got ideas goes and works in a big organization, if they possibly can, or

would it be better for them to just do their own thing without that influence

because of the changes?

What do you think?

It's interesting, because I, you know, the route I came up was working for a big organization.

And what that gives you is, you know, what good looks like, you also learn so much, because you work, I'm very lucky to have worked with some brilliant people.

And you and most of the people I worked with were so talented and so amazing, that occasionally you come across something and you think, I'm not happy about that, you still learn maybe I wouldn't have handled it that way.

So you learn a lot.

And, you know, and you maybe get to have opportunities.

But I met at a careers event I did not so long ago, a young, you know, and how old he was, maybe 15.

And he was already buying and selling things online, and making a fair bit of money.

And I think he's going to completely bypass everything.

And he's on a fast track to being very, very successful entrepreneur.

So I think there's some personality things in there.

He was very clear on what he was, he's already starting and he wasn't seeing his age as a barrier.

He was already starting and going ahead.

So I, I think there's some personality things in there.

I think there's some confidence things in there as well, because it's quite, you know, can be quite lonely doing something by yourself.

So the support is really important.

Yeah.

And I think these days, it costs quite a lot of money to I think it's, you know, once you understand the process to make the product, the product part is quite easy.

The brand and the marketing is expensive.

So what many people do is they, you know, they have their career and they have something so they can do their project on the side till they get to the point where actually, it's earning enough money that they can, they can swap and they can make their role, the main, you know, their project, the main thing, and let their career go.

Because it's, there is timing, there's a lot of things into going to making a brand.

And, you know, people see a new brand and they think, oh, it happened last week.

You know, I know many founders, it's taken them five years, more than five years, you know, some, sometimes one particular aspect might take just two years and you've not launched.

So there's not really an overnight success to that.

So I think having, maybe it's a bit, a bit of both to be able to go and work for an organization, learn some things, you know, and, and, and then have your own idea on the side.

I think you've got to go with what feels right for you, haven't you?

It's following you, is trusting your instinct, your intuition, working with what feels right for you, recognizing opportunities.

And if it's, if it is a great opportunity, seize it because of what you can learn.

And yeah, I mean, if you are somebody that really wants to go for it, go for it.

I mean, one of the things I recognize working in recruitment, you know, sometimes when you had somebody walk in, you go, Oh my gosh, they're, you just knew that they're going to go a long way.

And you know, now I see them on LinkedIn, you go, Oh my gosh.

Yeah.

As I thought, as I predicted that, and like you will, with that young man, you know, he's off, you just recognize it, but we're all different.

We're all meant to have different roles and do different things.

And it's just following what is, is right for you.

And it might be that you do go into a large organization, you could spend all your lifetime there.

You might come out of that and then go suddenly go, whoa, I'm going to do this now because I can, or you start off, you start off with a, with a brand and then suddenly it grows.

I don't know, you might get acquired.

Yes.

But you know, it's, it's starting out crushing those rose petals in the garden and being inspired to make your, make your perfume at home.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, and you never know, but I think as well, hopefully I've created something that can be done at home without, you know, a carer, a teacher, or another, you know, a family member and to give them them support.

Cause there are, you know, the process that's in here and how to do it is the same for what it's the same process that big industries and big brands follow.

And the hard one of the hardest thing was to make the language easy that a child could understand it.

I think it's very clever what you've done style that you've used and the writing encourages it to be more child-like if you like, but it's not child, it's not really childish writing, but it's got that rather than it just being printed in sort of canvas sounds or whatever it is or New Roman, it's written in such a way in a stylized way that it, it is appealing.

And I wouldn't be surprised that there aren't the adults that read that book and then get inspired themselves because it just breaks it down into that, you know, when you want to learn something new, but there aren't really any books out there that because, you know, you'll go and buy a book and it's like, oh God, how am I going to read through that lot?

But you can then pick up an element of that and then go and read from that and go, I didn't think about that bit.

Right.

Okay.

I can go and learn that.

So I think there's so many different aspects.

So what I ought to ask is how can people buy it?

I can't take any credits for the, I knew I had a concept and I knew what I wanted, but Faye is an amazing illustrator.

So she's from Nottingham Trent Uni and she came up, she watched you think of these and I wanted them to be, you know, kind of fairly unisex, but also we've made them so they're black and white, so people can colour it in and make it their own.

So, you know, if they've got dark hair or light hair or whatever, they can make that person look like them.

So that was the idea is that we've purposely not coloured them in so they can, it could be them.

So Faye is brilliant.

So she's from, she's local, well, she was a Nottingham Trent, she was one of my interns actually when she created this.

Oh really?

Oh my gosh, brilliant.

And then the other who Faye did all the illustration and then Ethan is also a designer, also from Nottingham Trent Uni and you see them both kind of mentioned in the front boilerplate here.

So Ethan, when I said to Ethan, I want it to be colourful, pick the designs and so Ethan came up with, so Ethan pulled it all together in the right layout and the right structure.

But this is an example, you know, these are both young people at the start of their career and this was both the first things they had with their name on and so that's kind of helped them, you know, and they came up with bookmarks and, you know, so the ripples continue, doesn't it?

You give somebody the opportunity.

Oh my God, you made me go all tingly, you made me go all tingly with that.

That's amazing.

So are they still studying them?

Will that form part of their...

So they had, and hats off to Nottingham Trent Uni, so they have a great employability scheme.

So if you do a degree with them, then they match you with employers who give you projects and that's why same before I gave them a real project to do.

In fact, Ethan, I'd worked with in the year before, as you can see, I've got some planners in the background and notebooks.

I wanted a beauty CEO planner, you know, some notebooks.

And so this is a 2026 one, he's just working on the 2027 one now.

And so Ethan came up with the, it's all been bespoke designed, we've got quotes in there, coaching tips.

So Ethan came up with those and I said, you know, these are the colours I'm thinking of, what do you think he came up with, a palette.

And then he's, you know, he helps with this.

And then Fay, I've got some other book ideas, so Fay will be helping me with those.

Oh, that's amazing.

So that gives them sort of a portfolio of work as well.

That's amazing, Carol.

Yeah, yeah.

I love that sort of the ecology, or the ecosystem, I should say, of the book.

So getting back to it, how does anybody reach out to you, get a copy of the book, find out more, where can they find you?

Where are we best to direct people to?

So I've got a website called growyourbrands.com and Brands has got an S on the end.

Or you can find me on Instagram, which is Carol Carson Beauty Brands, or you can just find me on LinkedIn, Carol Carson.

So that's, they're the best places to find it.

So yeah, brilliant.

And I'll put all that into the show notes as well, folks.

So wherever you're listening from, it will be in the show notes.

If you want to reach out to Carol, please do because she's, as you can tell, she is a font of information and also really, really passionate about supporting and encouraging the next generation, and anyone, I guess, really to sort of follow their flow and really be curious and create things.

Yes, yeah.

And what's been great is some people that I, some of my network that are in the industry have bought it for their kids to say, this is what mum does at work, you know, and they have their aspect of it.

So they've been able to kind of help their children understand.

But one of the things I would love to, and ask really, is if you are involved in with children at all, and you want to kind of do get, you know, be involved somehow, just reach out, you know, if I'd love to be able to be able to reach more young people.

So if you're a teacher, or there's some sort of, you know, you're connecting with young people, then, you know, I'd love to kind of find a way that we can work together and find a way to get this out to more young children.

So obviously, every individual can buy things, but that's why I like working with schools and young people and, you know, some hoping, you know, children's museums, and anybody that works with with children that, you know, we've got an opportunity to inspire.

I'd love to be able to learn to do that.

We've got a school at the moment where they've got 20 children kind of working through it with somebody that's facilitating that at the moment.

So that kind of thing.

Exciting, exciting, exciting.

Oh, this has been absolutely brilliant.

I mean, I know we've known each other for quite a long time, a number of years now, but you know what?

I feel very grateful to have this time to be able to talk to you, and it's done interrupted, and we can talk and and then share it and inspire across the globe, you know, because the podcast is listened to all over the world, which is amazing.

So thank you, thank you, thank you again.

And yeah, if you want to reach out, look at the show notes.

Carol's already given you the information.

And thank you so much, Carol.

Good luck with everything.

And good luck to all those lives and all those children that get inspired moving forward from from listening and parents too.

Thank you so much.

Take care, everyone.

Goodbye.

Thanks for listening to the Harnessing Happiness podcast with Sarah J.

Naylor.

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